AU Scantool Experiments (codes/live data!) - Page 2

Day-mow · 01-09-2012, 10:09 PM

im possibly dumb. but dont u get all this stuff from plugging a data logging type device into the OBDII port?

Gaz · 02-09-2012, 12:06 AM

You can with most cars, however the AU isn't OBDII compliant as such. It uses the same connector and a few of the same principles, but doesn't adhere to the OBDII standards.

OBDII defines generic PID's (parameter ID's) to create a uniform standard across cars, EG the same PID to get vehicle speed on any car. AU's are mostly propriety PID's (Ford's own ID numbers) and what AUFanboy is doing is figuring out what PID's the AU uses and what they relate to.

It seems some are common across ford's worldwide range (pre obd2) but Ford AU has some of it's own for the AU.

Day-mow · 02-09-2012, 12:06 PM

Yeah my snap on rep told me this. OBDII plug bit wiring isnt the same standard.

But I see and good stuff.

AUFanboy · 02-09-2012, 02:20 PM

@Gaz - yeah you won't be able to view the CMP signal from a scan tool because it's way too fast - there are 35 teeth on the crank wheel. Have a look at the graph about half way down the page on the following link to see what the CMP signal would look like - you'd need a proper oscilloscope to view it.

http://rockledge.home.comcast.net/~r...y/DIS_EDIS.htm

AU uses EDIS ignition system which runs purely off the crank position sensor, the cam sensor is just to control the sequential injection.

LuciferDarklord · 02-09-2012, 03:33 PM

AUFanboy I need some help! The only way I can successfully communicate with the car is thru hyperterminal. I've ordered a USB ELM327 v1.5, hopefully the dramas I'm having are either bluetooth related or because my ELM is quite old and probably an earlier version. Anyway, I used to be able (ie 53 00 00) to get sensible codes back out using your earlier instructions but now I get this;

atsp 1
OK

>atsh e4 10 f1
OK

>13
7F 13 00 00 00 62

>14
54

>13
7F 13 00 00 00 62

>

I had a brake warning light come on intermittently last week but I havent been able to get the codes off. I tried disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU but I still get the same response. Any ideas?

Evgeni · 02-09-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUFanboy

@Gaz - yeah you won't be able to view the CMP signal from a scan tool because it's way too fast - there are 35 teeth on the crank wheel. Have a look at the graph about half way down the page on the following link to see what the CMP signal would look like - you'd need a proper oscilloscope to view it.

http://rockledge.home.comcast.net/~r...y/DIS_EDIS.htm

AU uses EDIS ignition system which runs purely off the crank position sensor, the cam sensor is just to control the sequential injection.

+1
Two wire design circuits represent VRS or Variable reluctor type sensors. What you will see on a scope and on AUFanboy's link is an AC sine wave .
Voltage rises as the tooth approaches the sensor and then falls and changes polarity as the tooth moves away from the sensor.

With a multi-channel scope you could look at the quality of the signal and also the cmp and cnk events in relation to each other - least count out any input issues as the cause of a misfire.

@AUFanboy - thank you for the work you are doing on this. I have been persisting with the old fashoined method of prodding the sensors and computer. You can get most live data except for fuel trims, so many thanks for your posts.

Gaz · 03-09-2012, 12:25 AM

Thanks for the info.. all a great help.

After a 10 minute drive from resetting the ECU (haven't driven much this weekend!) the long term fuel trims are at 9 and 11%, not exactly accurate after such a small distance but will try to get some better figures later this week which could explain the misfire.

AUFanboy · 03-09-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuciferDarklord

AUFanboy I need some help! The only way I can successfully communicate with the car is thru hyperterminal. I've ordered a USB ELM327 v1.5, hopefully the dramas I'm having are either bluetooth related or because my ELM is quite old and probably an earlier version. Anyway, I used to be able (ie 53 00 00) to get sensible codes back out using your earlier instructions but now I get this;

atsp 1
OK

>atsh e4 10 f1
OK

>13
7F 13 00 00 00 62

>14
54

>13
7F 13 00 00 00 62

>

I had a brake warning light come on intermittently last week but I havent been able to get the codes off. I tried disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU but I still get the same response. Any ideas?

The 7F response means there are no codes stored. But the above is just talking to the PCM (engine/transmission ECU). To get the ABS codes you'll have to talk to the ABS module which I haven't played around with yet - it's on a different bus and requires different headers etc. FORScan recognises the ABS module and should be able to get codes (mine didn't have any ABS problems or codes stored so I can't confirm, but it should work), so you should be able to find out what's going on when the USB module arrives.

Gaz · 09-09-2012, 09:16 PM

Had a quick look at my long and short term fuel trims this morning.. their at about +7% after ~100km's of driving.

More interestingly were my STFT's at idle... big gap between bank's 1 and 2 at idle and figures going the other way idling on gas, my gas tune might be a little out! Unfortunately the laptop battery is stuffed so can't go for a drive and log these under load, only idle!

Idling on Gas -

Idling on Petrol -

Quick question - I thought narrowband O2's returned a oscillating reading between 0v and 1v? (<.5 lean >.5 rich?)

My ECT and AIT on startup were about 6-7 Deg different, ~15 for ECT and ~21 for IAT I think.. was about 26 degrees today.

CKP fault code hasn't come back but P0350 has.

AUFanboy · 28-09-2012, 08:18 PM

Update to this - turns out I had short term fuel trim the wrong way around - instead of this:

1158 - short term fuel trim percent - 2 bytes - subtract 32768 then divide by 327.68

it should be this:

1158 - short term fuel trim percent - 2 bytes - subtract 32768 then divide by -327.68

Weird that they made it backwards but there's a lot of weirdness in these ford-specific PIDs.

Also there's a new version of FORScan with a bunch of new PIDs working.

AUFanboy · 28-09-2012, 08:28 PM

Hey Gaz - it looks like your gas tune is pretty good - the sum of short term and long term trim is about 0. But when running on petrol the LTFT + STFT is 10 to 15%! This means the car is either getting less fuel or more air than it expects. It could well be a vacuum leak. MAF-sensed cars are very sensitive to vacuum leaks and this could be causing the lean misfire when in open loop mode on startup... once it goes closed loop the computer will see the lean condition and add fuel.

In theory the long term trims should increase to bring the short term trims back towards zero, and then these long term trims should be applied in open-loop mode to richen up the mixture. But the dual fuel may be causing an issue here, because when running on gas the long term trims will go back down towards zero (based on the screenshot you posted above). Then when you start on petrol it will be too lean and run like poop. Does it get better if you don't use gas for a while?

Another possibility could be a vacuum leak that goes away once the motor warms up a bit, if so it would be a pain to track down.

Gaz · 29-09-2012, 12:20 AM

I'm gonna have a hunt again for vac leaks this weekend. I've also got some new o2 sensors to try just in case.

I think it did run slightly better after an ECU reset using only petrol but was a little rough, not perfect but better.

I've also discovered this week that the gas ECU has o2 sensor inputs, which aren't connected.. interesting!

Will grab the new forscan release and have a look. Have you found the old one to be a little buggy? I've had times where it won't do real time stats and thinks the car is off and it hangs when you try to stop the monitoring.

AUFanboy · 29-09-2012, 01:42 PM

Haven't had those problems but I have had it re-boot the ECU a couple of times

Using the slowest setting seems to help.

LuciferDarklord · 12-10-2012, 06:29 PM

Finally got my USB ELM327 V1.5 from China, and the latest FORScan works! I had a few DTC's - ignition coil, power steering pressure switch, knock sensor, coolant temp sensor. I reset them, see if they come back. Could possibly be a dirty connector on the rear of the manifold (the one with a thousand wires into it) I did give that connector a clean when I replaced my inlet manifold gasket. One thing I've noticed is the live data streaming oscilliscope seems to hang after a few seconds, dont think it likes lots of data coming in as it ran a lot longer only monitoring one PID.

humpmeimfamous · 13-10-2012, 10:18 AM

OK lets be clear... this actually works on your AU? can you maybe provide a link to purchase one... PLEASE...........

josh_adams145 · 13-10-2012, 11:18 AM

I can confirm that FORScan does work with a AU II!!!!!!!!!!!! no others would

AUFanboy · 13-10-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humpmeimfamous

OK lets be clear... this actually works on your AU? can you maybe provide a link to purchase one... PLEASE...........

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ELM-327-U...item2a24282a93

$22 shipped from Aust... can get even cheaper from overseas

LuciferDarklord · 13-10-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humpmeimfamous

OK lets be clear... this actually works on your AU? can you maybe provide a link to purchase one... PLEASE...........

Hi HumpMeImFamous, yep can confirm it works with a few minor glitches, like the fact that it freezes after data logging, but other than that it works fine. Here's the ELM327 I bought off ebay. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150817696...ht_4559wt_1398

Took me a while to find the right drivers for the 'prolific usb-serial' adapter but these ones seem to work (the ones on the CD didnt work) http://www.cooldrives.com/lib/cooldr...l-adapters.zip

FORScan can be found at http://www.forscan.org/

The ELM tool took nearly a month to come, chinese holiday or something.

humpmeimfamous · 13-10-2012, 05:43 PM

fantastic.. I just Ordered this one... it seems to have the same protocols as the one mentioned that worked... but i wanted to see if would work on my galaxy s3, for a few more dollars I don't see the harm. and if it doesn't work, well my laptop still has bluetooth and or wifi so no probs in theory. thanx for the info, MUCH appreciated.

humpmeimfamous · 13-10-2012, 05:48 PM

You know I must say, I haven't been the most active member of this site, but when ever i am, I get a real sense of community from it. Ford fans are just a better type of people as oppose to the "other group".

LuciferDarklord · 14-10-2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humpmeimfamous

fantastic.. I just Ordered this one... it seems to have the same protocols as the one mentioned that worked... but i wanted to see if would work on my galaxy s3, for a few more dollars I don't see the harm. and if it doesn't work, well my laptop still has bluetooth and or wifi so no probs in theory. thanx for the info, MUCH appreciated.

Will be interesting to see if it works. I've got a bluetooth one that's a year or two old and I couldnt get it to work with the AU (worked fine on my FG and missus' i30 diesel) Might just be the older version firmware, not sure. The bluetooth one would work through hyperterminal but not FORScan.

humpmeimfamous · 14-10-2012, 12:22 AM

its the same unit just a different means of output, so if it doesn't work on my android, I'll just use FORscan on the laptop and connect via blutooth... if that doesn't work then I'll get the exact one you have and keep this one for the wifes car, or my folks terry and so on....

humpmeimfamous · 18-10-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUFanboy

Then you need to enter the custom PIDs. Go settings/manage extra PIDs then add custom PID. Enter the mode and PID as described a few posts above. E.g. for MAP: under the Mode and PID setting enter 221440

set min/max to 0 and 102, and set equation to (A*256+B)/4 , and OBD Header to Auto.

Then go to Realtime Information (from the start screen) and delete all the default gauges. Add a new gauge and set it to use the PID you just entered, and it should work.

AUfanboy, please forgive my utter ignorance but i cant understand this section..

here's a screenshot

I know I know, Im an idiot ,lol, but im an idiot who needs help... could give me just one example of what i should enter, so i can see it... and maybe let me know what post yo were referring to with "mode and PID as described a few posts above".. please. one au man to another?

Gaz · 18-10-2012, 11:05 PM

I'd read that as:

First box - 221440
2nd - MAP
3rd - MAP
4th - 0
5th - 102
6th - x1
7th - ??
8th - (A*256+B)/4
9th - Auto

Mode PID's are this post - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...3&postcount=17

The PIDS are the first 6 digits. 22 (PCM) and 14 40 is the MAP PID - togeather 221440 for MAP sensor

How he determined the formula, well, this is just my guess...

His request and return was;
2214401,62 14 40 01 95 // MAP, kPa, div 4?

221440(1) is the sent PID, 62 is the success response, 14 40 is the PID repeated and 01 95 is the response.

now the formula of (A*256+b)/4 - I assume this is A (01) and B (95).

01*256+95 = 351 / 4 = 87.75kpa.

At a guess the 256 and 4 are scalers and offets, which you need to figure out.

Of course, this is me guessing. I'm sure he will correct me but it might get you started.

AUFanboy · 19-10-2012, 06:39 PM

Yep Gaz has the right answers for what to put in the boxes! In the 7th box (unit type) you can either just leave it blank or put kPa. If you specify the unit type the Torque app will convert it to PSI if you have that set in the unit preferences etc. The post with the PIDs to enter is here: http://fordforums.com.au/showpost.ph...0&postcount=21
Except I had the short term fuel trim wrong (backwards).. the corrected equation is here: http://fordforums.com.au/showpost.ph...6&postcount=40

The responses are actually in hex (base 16). Torque will automatically convert each byte from hex to decimal (base 10). But it won't automatically convert a two-byte response into a decimal number. That's why we have to multiply the first byte by 256. It's a bit confusing so don't worry if you don't understand this. Just remember that to convert a 2-byte response into one decimal number use A*256 + B. Then apply the scale factors and offsets. So for MAP, the equation is (A*256 + B) / 4

For long term fuel trip (for example), the equation is (A*256 + B) / 2.56 - 100 And the min and max are +/- 30, but these numbers don't really matter and are just for setting the default gauge scaling.

For trans fluid temp, there are no offsets or scaling, so the equation is just A*256 + B

For battery voltage, only one byte is returned. Torque automatically converts this byte to decimal, so we just need to apply the scale factor. So the eqation is just A / 16

For vehicle speed the equation is (A*256 + B) / 320

etc... hopefully you can work the rest out from here!

humpmeimfamous · 25-10-2012, 08:21 PM

OK so maybe im just a tool, but that seemed far too complicated for me. so i just installed forscan onto my laptop and and dragged it out to my car. I had to set it to com port 4 to work and hey presto.. showed me three codes. now to work on these.... cheers for the help though guys. An i can confirm that the bluetooth unit also works with forscan.

**George V** · 07-11-2012, 11:13 PM

Hi,

Finally, got Forscan and ELM327 V1.5 hooked up via usb and ran tests today.

First scan on connection showed a knock sensor error code. Key on / engine off test gave DTC associated with power steering pressure (PSP) switch. These two seems to be common errors. I will investigate these further.

Question to the experts:

Does anybody know of any other software in the market can test ABS and run bleeding tests via ELM327?

Forscan gots only two tests for AU Falcons - Key On Engine off and key on engine running. Anybody got any idea on how to test ABS and other modules?

A huge thanks to Aufanboy, GAZ, Darklord and the others for finding a way to get live data out of AU falcon;

just brilliant.

Regards,
George V

mikeeman_ford · 01-12-2012, 04:21 PM

What Baud Rate should i use with the OBD2 - USB for my AU1?

LuciferDarklord · 02-12-2012, 10:44 AM

Mine seems to like 38400

Silver' · 13-02-2013, 01:22 AM

This thread makes me happy.

See?

I just ordered my ELM327...

I hope that you don't mind me asking: what language you are developing your software in AUFanboy?

Would it be safe to assume that the http://gopointtech.com/ product would work, but with only a small percentage of the data coming from an AU?