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FairmontGS 01-12-2020 11:07 AM
Re: Ambitious China
 
ScoMo's outrage yesterday was for the voters. What do I care if some twat from a dictatorship with an abysmal record on human rights posts a childish photoshopped graphic? They just make themselves look stupider than they currently are.

It's simple - get off the internet. You aren't in the Australian Foreign Ministry so stop being so "triggered and impacted". Sheesh...

Trevor 57 01-12-2020 11:37 AM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Just Google 'China Falun Gong' or 'China Buddhists', and they criticise us lol

superyob 01-12-2020 12:24 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairmontGS (Post 6519124)
ScoMo's outrage yesterday was for the voters. What do I care if some twat from a dictatorship with an abysmal record on human rights posts a childish photoshopped graphic? They just make themselves look stupider than they currently are.

It's simple - get off the internet. You aren't in the Australian Foreign Ministry so stop being so "triggered and impacted". Sheesh...
I must totally and unequivocally disagree with you FGS! What am I going to do at work if I 'get off the internet'???

FTE217 01-12-2020 01:48 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
So a bully gives you a well set up low hard belt to the mid drift (a typical low act in anyones world) to expose target as a flogg/tyrant/un ethical/bigot.
Some in the crowd think you shouldn't react.
Some in the crowd think you should counter.
Some think one from a lower level of Gov should have countered.
Some think the PM's rebuttal was right.
Some think why care.

Were just typical citizens watching from the sideline but wtf - painting it with Trumpisms and or be wary don't poke the bear.
There comes a time you got to make a stand rightly or wrongly, covid exposed enough chips on shoulders amongst fellow Aussies don't you think, there's a time when Australians need to stand together - imo this situation is one of standing behind your Team and work with them and not picking issues at hand that suit your train of thought.
Sometimes Unity needs to bubble to the top for a change.
Other countries know we are not like they will portray US, they will side with us.
More Countries will side with US and thats the best outcome in the Big picture despite the pain financially that is likely to come, no pain no gain as they say.

Itsme 01-12-2020 01:54 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3rminator (Post 6519052)
I would have made a short and sharp statement. Point to the fact that the war crimes were self reported, and a free and democratic society that values human life will put the allegations to trial. And point to how we handle it differently to some of their human rights abuse. Done. But he fell for the bait and its now international headlines.

I think this guy sums it up well...

"Herve Lemahieu, director of the power and diplomacy program at the Lowy Institute, said Mr Morrison should not have responded to the "smear" and "low-blow" from a relatively junior Chinese official on Twitter.

He said Australia's response was "overly emotive and defensive" and played right into China's hands.

"We shouldn't deploy our top asset - head of government - to respond to a propaganda post from some junior level official in the Chinese Foreign Ministry. These guys seek attention and we have given it to them," Mr Lemahieu said.

"I would describe it as a smear and a sub-tweet, and I didn't think it merited a response from the Prime Minister. It's beneath the Prime Minister to have to react to that."

Mr Lemahieu said he believed the tweet was used as "bait to lure a response", and also to switch the debate from China's "blatant violation of the economic rules-based order" by imposing unfair tariffs on Australia.

"That [the tariffs] is the big story, and to me it looks like they are trying to switch the subjects and make Australia look like the villain. We shouldn't have fallen for it," he said."
Just remember no matter how junior the official was he is still representing the Chinese Government whether through official channels or Twitter.
Think you will find the rest of world can make up its mind with our human right record compared to China dismal record.
The self reporting is well known to the rest of the world.

In hindsight I still find Scomo comment was justifiable and correct, not speaking up to China means we are weak in their eyes.
Cheers

Polyal 01-12-2020 01:59 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Officemanager (Post 6519189)

In hindsight I still find Scomo comment was justifiable and correct, not speaking up to China means we are weak in their eyes.
Why is that;

a) Important
b) Correct

I get what you are saying, but if we all over reacted to every little quip or photoshop the world would be in more of a mess than it is currently.

Yes we should have said something, but why the PM?

They are baiting us, christ AFAIK the general public in China get a filtered (if anything) Twitter...so why use a platform that their people dont even see. Thats were I struggle with the "weak in their eyes" comments. let them believe their own spin, they are the ones going to look like muppets.

They are juvenile when it comes to international politics, we should be making them look like amateur's.

Citroënbender 01-12-2020 02:02 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
That’s one thing I saw, the imbalance of response. It’s shown the PM as susceptible to trolling. :doh

Polyal 01-12-2020 02:03 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTE217 (Post 6519185)
So a bully gives you a well set up low hard belt to the mid drift (a typical low act in anyones world) to expose target as a flogg/tyrant/un ethical/bigot.
Some in the crowd think you shouldn't react.
Some in the crowd think you should counter.
Some think one from a lower level of Gov should have countered.
Some think the PM's rebuttal was right.
Some think why care.

Were just typical citizens watching from the sideline but wtf - painting it with Trumpisms and or be wary don't poke the bear.
There comes a time you got to make a stand rightly or wrongly, covid exposed enough chips on shoulders amongst fellow Aussies don't you think, there's a time when Australians need to stand together - imo this situation is one of standing behind your Team and work with them and not picking issues at hand that suit your train of thought.
Sometimes Unity needs to bubble to the top for a change.
Other countries know we are not like they will portray US, they will side with us.
More Countries will side with US and thats the best outcome in the Big picture despite the pain financially that is likely to come, no pain no gain as they say.
Agreed it is now or never (dramatic but not far off).

China should play a role in our export plan, but we need to be able to ride the waves and the same would go with any company.

We all know that diversity is key to stability, so the GovCo has some serious work to reduce the near 30% reliance on China for total exports.

How about we start on the cheap cars?

Sprintey 01-12-2020 02:25 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Citroenbender, re the 10 to 15 year view: if we want a strategy for normal people - take one of their imported products, have a good look at it/the market for it, work out a way to make it cheaper and distribute/market better, then eat their lunch producing it locally. This is not impossible though it may have to be automated.

tweeked 01-12-2020 02:27 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal (Post 6519190)
Why is that;

a) Important
b) Correct

I get what you are saying, but if we all over reacted to every little quip or photoshop the world would be in more of a mess than it is currently.

Yes we should have said something, but why the PM?

They are baiting us, christ AFAIK the general public in China get a filtered (if anything) Twitter...so why use a platform that their people dont even see. Thats were I struggle with the "weak in their eyes" comments. let them believe their own spin, they are the ones going to look like muppets.

They are juvenile when it comes to international politics, we should be making them look like amateur's.
Because half the world will think that was an unaltered photo. We just say "we will go through our processes blah blah blah " then we are not correcting the record. I am happy standing up to them. Go through a long long night to a better day.

It will hurt, but we have got ourselves into a position with them. The only way out is to not capitulate to them. Just smash them back with their Wolf Warrior diplomacy, anyone thinking you can have a level conversation with them has rocks in their head.

Sprintey 01-12-2020 02:35 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTE217 (Post 6519185)
So a bully gives you a well set up low hard belt to the mid drift (a typical low act in anyones world) to expose target as a flogg/tyrant/un ethical/bigot.
Some in the crowd think you shouldn't react.
Some in the crowd think you should counter.
Some think one from a lower level of Gov should have countered.
Some think the PM's rebuttal was right.
Some think why care.

Were just typical citizens watching from the sideline but wtf - painting it with Trumpisms and or be wary don't poke the bear.
There comes a time you got to make a stand rightly or wrongly, covid exposed enough chips on shoulders amongst fellow Aussies don't you think, there's a time when Australians need to stand together - imo this situation is one of standing behind your Team and work with them and not picking issues at hand that suit your train of thought.
Sometimes Unity needs to bubble to the top for a change.
Other countries know we are not like they will portray US, they will side with us.
More Countries will side with US and thats the best outcome in the Big picture despite the pain financially that is likely to come, no pain no gain as they say.
FTE217 if they wanted to a) unify most Australians in anger and b) herd smaller producing countries together with the thought they could go through this if they break ranks - then they've achieved their aim.

Polyal 01-12-2020 02:59 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeked (Post 6519209)
Because half the world will think that was an unaltered photo. We just say "we will go through our processes blah blah blah " then we are not correcting the record. I am happy standing up to them. Go through a long long night to a better day.

It will hurt, but we have got ourselves into a position with them. The only way out is to not capitulate to them. Just smash them back with their Wolf Warrior diplomacy, anyone thinking you can have a level conversation with them has rocks in their head.
You fight fire with fire and you end up burnt, we are the ones that are going to come off bruised not them. We are not at war per se, but this kind of crap actually starts them!

At the end of the day some chump did a PS, it was completely out of line but our reaction was over the top. Its the grandstanding the PM is doing on a raft of things that is inflaming the situation, we just need to be a bit smarter.

That doesnt mean you double down, or that you are "weak", it means you are level headed and calculated.

Anyone can throw insults, now the PM looks like a monkey because as if China will say sorry.

I am all for getting even, but doing it publicly is ugly and childish. Call it out fine, but do it tactfully because even if you shout they are not going to listen so you only diminish yourself.

Actions...not words.

Itsme 01-12-2020 04:01 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal (Post 6519224)
You fight fire with fire and you end up burnt, we are the ones that are going to come off bruised not them. We are not at war per se, but this kind of crap actually starts them!

At the end of the day some chump did a PS, it was completely out of line but our reaction was over the top. Its the grandstanding the PM is doing on a raft of things that is inflaming the situation, we just need to be a bit smarter.

That doesnt mean you double down, or that you are "weak", it means you are level headed and calculated.

Anyone can throw insults, now the PM looks like a monkey because as if China will say sorry.

I am all for getting even, but doing it publicly is ugly and childish. Call it out fine, but do it tactfully because even if you shout they are not going to listen so you only diminish yourself.

Actions...not words.
China does not have to say sorry and most likely it won't and it is about time people and business in our country should realise who they are trading with and look elsewhere.
China's belt & road initiative should be a reminder to all of us in what we dealing with.
I still stand with what Scomo response which I think is warranted contrary to yours and others beliefs.
China has become very aggressive when they don't get their way.
Sometimes you have to be blunt in responding.

five 7 01-12-2020 04:30 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awrg...0NJ5x6IrGg_TE-

They are such a nice benevolent country this is a perfect example of how friendly they are. You war hounds of the United States.

T3rminator 01-12-2020 04:44 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Bullying 101. Keep pressing someone's buttons until you get the reaction you are after. The thing is, when you don't give bullies what they want, it actually eats them alive. That is not to say give in, bend over and not respond, just don't give them the reaction they are after. Anyway, whats done is done and we now need to manage it. I would have liked to see more of our close allies coming out publicly with voice of support.

Don't underestimate the significance of Russia weighing in. We are now the target of propaganda from two very powerful foreign entities. What is Russia's beef with us anyway?

Importantly, whilst we disagree on methods and don't see eye to eye on some subjects, we need to stick together. Otherwise its divide and conquer. Not a fan of Alan Tudge but I thought he has at least done the right thing today. Anti CCP can very quickly turn into anti chinese. Yesterday all muslims were terrorists, tomorrow all chinese are agents. hmmmmm

five 7 01-12-2020 04:48 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender (Post 6519034)
I am disappointed in Twitter, it’s not helping perceptions of a double standard.
CB trust me you can get through life just fine without twatter, sometimes the less you know is better. :peepwall

FairmontGS 01-12-2020 04:51 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3rminator (Post 6519267)
Bullying 101. Keep pressing someone's buttons until you get the reaction you are after. The thing is, when you don't give bullies what they want, it actually eats them alive. That is not to say give in, bend over and not respond, just don't give them the reaction they are after. Anyway, whats done is done and we now need to manage it. I would have liked to see more of our close allies coming out publicly with voice of support.

Don't underestimate the significance of Russia weighing in. We are now the target of propaganda from two very powerful foreign entities. What is Russia's beef with us anyway?

Importantly, whilst we disagree on methods and don't see eye to eye on some subjects, we need to stick together. Otherwise its divide and conquer. Not a fan of Alan Tudge but I thought he has at least done the right thing today. Anti CCP can very quickly turn into anti chinese. Yesterday all muslims were terrorists, tomorrow all chinese are agents. hmmmmm
Russia, pffft. They have the GDP of Phillip Island but try to punch like they are the USA.... Forget them.

Losers.:Whatever

roKWiz 01-12-2020 04:53 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Lets see if we can have a made in China free Christmas.

Maybe stop and think about what we buy as gifts, groceries and hardware.
Yeah Yeah, I know its hard, I hear all the excuses, read the bl**dy labels and boycott their crap.

FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0 01-12-2020 05:01 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roKWiz (Post 6519272)
Lets see if we can have a made in China free Christmas.

Maybe stop and think about what we buy as gifts, groceries and hardware.
Yeah Yeah, I know its hard, I hear all the excuses, read the bl**dy labels and boycott their crap.
Not so difficult to do with food, but goods it would almost be impossible. Even stuff made in Australia has the materials supplied from China. People argue about not buying Chinese made cars, but even our beloved Holden and Aus Ford vehicles still had a lot of Chinese product in them.

Itsme 01-12-2020 05:38 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0 (Post 6519277)
Not so difficult to do with food, but goods it would almost be impossible. Even stuff made in Australia has the materials supplied from China. People argue about not buying Chinese made cars, but even our beloved Holden and Aus Ford vehicles still had a lot of Chinese product in them.
Australia can ween itself from Chinese products over time; it is about time we wake up to our selves and look elsewhere to trade or bring back businesses to Australia, I would have thought Covid19 would have brought home our own short comings.
We don't really need China as there is other potential markets to explore.

FTE217 01-12-2020 05:48 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
far out, with all due respect to Polyal and T3 might I add, please stand on the other line.

Don't you think we have opened up enough for them after all these years.
Sure we have gained $$$$'s and we sold out to them long ago (I won't bring in my political pov) but Trade alliances is about having a win win and for as long as I've noticed we have gained trading $$$'s but not much else.
Infact our soul has been squandered in many ways for the sake of the buck to this tyrant who when not getting their way they try to turn the tables making you the bad guy ! and anti chinese, ofcourse they will.
We have opened the doors to investing here not just exports.
We educate their kids.
Its not just about the money its that we opened up and welcomed them and to be treated as such after all these years of keeping our mouths shut due to business's sake and suck it up more you have got to be kidding yourselves.
We all know were being played like doh.
Stop bringing in Trumpism's and alike and take things down like a SM show.
I'd sooner our leader say something than sitting back delegating to one of his hand maidens - oh thats what you think is a better stratergy.
That frigging stupid insta pic depicted us as crimes, we have alot more honour than that than letting it through to the keeper after all these years of keeping the peace despite our country being eaten up in the mean time.
Just ask all those citizens like ourselves in the countries the CCP have bought out far more than ours how they feel in the big picture and whats to become of their next few gens.

ford71V8 01-12-2020 05:51 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Big big task to convince every Aussie to stop buying the best deal on the 75" smart tele and instead purchase the non-Chinese expensive one that does the same thing (does one even exist?) .... but I agree, and have said so many times to friends for years.

FairmontGS 01-12-2020 06:13 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
I'm not the only person who looked at that cartoon and thought "Now where have I seen that sort of childlike, biblical cursing? Oh yeah... ISIS..."

They're fast becoming a pariah state and this isn't the way the Chinese have traditionally done things. It smacks of the hubris of one man starting to believe that he's an Emperor... When the USA/UK/Canada/France/Italy/Japan get involved it will start costing China money.

It'll end when we read one morning that Xi Ping has had to retire for "health reasons".

Trevor 57 01-12-2020 07:33 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Has China responded to ScoMo's outburst

MITCHAY 01-12-2020 07:59 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor 57 (Post 6519328)
Has China responded to ScoMo's outburst
Yeah the Chinese embassy has pretty much said get ****ed as expected.

I'm a strong advocate for maintaining strong diplomatic links particularly in difficult times but looks like these ****s are pretty hopeless so I really wouldn't have an issue with booting them out of Australia :lol

Yellow_Festiva 01-12-2020 08:22 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintey (Post 6519208)
Citroenbender, re the 10 to 15 year view: if we want a strategy for normal people - take one of their imported products, have a good look at it/the market for it, work out a way to make it cheaper and distribute/market better, then eat their lunch producing it locally. This is not impossible though it may have to be automated.
I don't think we will ever be able to make something cheaper than China.

We may be able to make it to a higher specification, or a finer tolerance, or something unique to our lands but I don't think it would ever be cheaper.

Depending on what list you look at - be in income, buying power etc.

Australia is on average anywhere between USD $51k and $54k pa.

China is on average anywhere between USD $11k and $17k pa.

I bet they don't have to abide by the same laws and standards we give our workers etc.

When you have workers willing to earn 1/5 to 1/3 of our wage, who are happy to work 14 hours a day with a 30 minute break 7 days a week while living on the site of the facility sleeping 10 to a room we have no chance to compete with that.

It saddens me that we can ship raw materials there, they can then ship back a finished product and still sell it for much much less than we could ever possibly make it here.

nstg8a 01-12-2020 08:24 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
One of the conditions China has for improving relations is that Chinese business interests are allowed open slather to buy property and business in Australia.

Do you ‘now how much an Australian business can buy in China?

Nothing. The only way is with a ‘partnership’ with the Chinese govt.

It’s all take take take, and if you give them a little now, they will just keep coming back with more demands.

Yellow_Festiva 01-12-2020 08:33 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal (Post 6519224)
You fight fire with fire and you end up burnt, we are the ones that are going to come off bruised not them. We are not at war per se, but this kind of crap actually starts them!

At the end of the day some chump did a PS, it was completely out of line but our reaction was over the top. Its the grandstanding the PM is doing on a raft of things that is inflaming the situation, we just need to be a bit smarter.

That doesnt mean you double down, or that you are "weak", it means you are level headed and calculated.

Anyone can throw insults, now the PM looks like a monkey because as if China will say sorry.

I am all for getting even, but doing it publicly is ugly and childish. Call it out fine, but do it tactfully because even if you shout they are not going to listen so you only diminish yourself.

Actions...not words.
Quote:
‘So challenging’: Why an Aussie boycott of Chinese products is doomed to fail

Tensions between Australia and China boiled over this week. But there’s a glaring reason why a push to hit the nation where it hurts is doomed to fail.

Alexis Carey DECEMBER 1, 2020

Australia’s relationship with China has plummeted to a new low, and the latest war of words has sparked a predictable call for shoppers to fight back by boycotting Chinese goods.

Outrage over China’s “repugnant” doctored soldier photo continues to grow, with leaders and everyday Aussies alike condemning the sick attack.

The photo scandal coupled with China’s escalating trade war with Australia has prompted One Nation’s Pauline Hanson to push for a boycott of Chinese products this Christmas – an idea that is already attracting a great deal of support.

But there’s a glaring reason why the plan is not only doomed to fail, but also harmful to Australia’s own interests.

ONLY HURTING OURSELVES

China is Australia’s most important partner when it comes to imports, with Aussies snapping up a staggering $71.3 billion worth of goods and services from China in 2017/18 – the equivalent of 18 per cent of Australia’s total imports.

Some of the most common imported items include telecom equipment and parts, computers, furniture, mattresses and cushions and prams, toys, games and sporting goods – meaning we are well and truly reliant on China to provide the stuff we need.

It is also estimated that a total trade war with China would cost Australia 6 per cent of GDP, according to a recent piece in The Conversation by University of Western Australia Winthrop professor of economics Rod Tyers and Australian National University senior lecturer in economics Yixiao Zhou.

IMPOSSIBLE TASK

Meanwhile, Queensland University of Technology retail expert Gary Mortimer told news.com.au the sheer proportion of Chinese-made products in Australia across just about every category meant a boycott would be an almost impossible task.

“Calling for boycotts of Chinese-made products may seem like a reasonable and balanced approach. In practical terms it is incredibly difficult,” Dr Mortimer said.

“One would only need to wander through any Australian discount department store to realise the proportion of products imported from China.”

Dr Mortimer said there was a particularly high proportion of Chinese-made apparel, home furnishings, furniture and consumer electronics in Australia, but pointed out that even items made from Australian materials were often manufactured elsewhere.

“You will often find that even better-quality apparel like men’s suits might be made with Australian merino wool but be manufactured in China and then shipped back,” he said.

“Even products produced in places like South Korea, India and Bangladesh may contain elements or parts produced in China.

“The problem is consumers are so dependent on Chinese-made goods that calls to boycott them will fall on deaf ears as it is so challenging to do so.”

Dr Mortimer also pointed out that if we were to stop all Chinese imports, it would have a “devastating impact” on our GDP and said trade was a “two-way street” that benefited both nations.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...e0caffa7724dac

Yellow_Festiva 01-12-2020 09:05 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor 57 (Post 6519136)
Just Google 'China Falun Gong' or 'China Buddhists', and they criticise us lol
You can add Uyghurs to that list...

Citroënbender 01-12-2020 09:09 PM
Re: Ambitious China
 
…Kaifeng Jews as well. They’ve gone to a lot of subversive effort to completely remove them from historical record; even Wikipedia frequently suffers hostile edits on the topic.


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